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This thread has been moderated. While there is no shame in being higher weight or having a substance use disorder, conflating being higher-weight with substance use disorders is not evidence-based, is rooted in stereotypes about higher-weight people, and does a disservice to higher-weight people, to people with substance use disorders, and to higher-weight people with actual substance use disorders.
This was such a great read! It feels like the terms we use to describe ourselves are constantly changing. It can be confusing and this was incredibly helpful. Thanks for your work!
So glad it was helpful., thanks! There's definitely a process of evolution that goes on when a marginalized group is working out what to call themselves, and of course here that's complicated by the weight loss industry trying to hijack that process for profit (without caring who they harm.)
I'm very large and prefer the term obese over the term fat. People call me fat every week and it's usually done as an insult. In fact, people have been calling me fat as long as I can remember and it's almost always meant as a way to mock me. The word fat is seen in such a negative light that my niece's school banned it as a slur among other racial slurs and using it will get the kid suspended. That being said, no-one has ever called me obese as an insult. Everyone has been ultra-supportive and understanding who has used that term to describe me. I don't care that it means "to eat until fat" - what's wrong with having a big appetite anyway? It's not a moral failure to like food - food is not alcohol - and everyone who looks at you will think that you're large because you've eaten too much anyway, so there's no point pretending otherwise (regardless of the truth).
Hi Nancy, I believe that oppressed people can choose whatever word they prefer for whatever reason they prefer it. And as I mentioned in the piece I definitely understand that fat is a reclaiming term and thus complicated, which is also why I use terms like higher weight, larger bodied, etc. in some situations. I also absolutely agree that there is no moral failure in liking food. The reason I personally don't use ob*se is that if I use it, I reinforce and support the pathologization and medicalization of higher weight people (which is exclusively what that term was created to do) which, even if it doesn't end up harming me, leads to the harming and even killing of many other higher weight people by creating weight stigma, weight cycling, and healthcare inequalities.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply Ragen. What I don't understand is, why can't we reclaim the word obese and make it into something that no-longer has any harmful components to it? In my understanding the n-word was also originally created to harm black people and now they use it to refer to each other without stigma. I just feel like the word fat has such negative connotations attached to it that it can't be saved. I remember my father telling my brother to never call a lady two things: fat or ugly. My brother (also a large person) ended up marrying a thin lady, whereas I personally never got the chance to marry anyone at all or to have children, and I feel it's mostly due to my size. I must confess that I'm not very well-versed in so called fat politics, but it does both puzzle and trigger me when people call themselves small, mid, large or infinifats, when those categorizations (in my experience) roughly begin at BMIs of 35, 40, 45 and 50. I get that BMI is a flawed metric, but why can't we use something more objective than clothing sizes when we categorize ourselves? Why not use the tools that we have rather than reinvent the wheel, even if the original inventor was an anti-large person white man? I'm saying this as someone who already had a BMI in the low 30's as a teenager and a BMI between 40 and 45 during most of my adulthood.
I'll start by saying that fatphobia and racism are not comparable, at least not by those who don't hold both identities. That's something that I used to do too, and then kind folks educated me that it both erases the differences in history between racism and fatphobia, as well as erasing the experiences of those who are both fat and Black.
In terms of reclaiming "obese" it is a term that was literally created to pathologize and medicalize fat bodies and it is rooted in racism, and particularly anti-Blackness, and when we use it we reinforce those things. It is not a term that we are reclaiming from being a taunt (like fat,) the concepts of "obesity" and "BMI" are racist pseudoscience that are being actively used by the healthcare system to harm and oppress us, and they do more harm to those who hold multiple marginalized identities - when we legitimize these words we participate in that harm.
I'm so sorry that your life has been impacted by weight stigma, that should not happen. In terms of small, mid, large, and infinifat, I've never heard anyone in fat liberation community tie those to BMI. Typically they are loosely tied to clothing sizes, but mostly to experiences of oppression that increase with size.
Part of the journey of oppressed groups is to choose how to name and describe themselves and their experience within oppressive systems, and while of course no one is obligated to choose to reclaim terms, I think it is important the we support the process of liberation for other fat folks, and divest from the systems (and terms) that were created to oppress - especially those terms that oppress those with less privilege than we have.
Thank you for continuing to explain your thought process. I have probably been a lucky large person, since I've never remember having had care denied due to my size. I have, of course, had many healthcare professionals warn me about my large size and that it'll catch up with me at some point. I've never felt stressed about it, because my health complaints have always been taken seriously and they've never been size related. I was diagnosed with a liver problem 5 years ago and that was the only time I felt bad about my eating habits in relation to my health. Back then the doctor informed me that I have fructose induced fatty liver disease, which is a fancier word for NAFLD. She told me not to worry about losing weight, but to stop eating sugar altogether, because that was apparently the cause of it. I had a really hard time complying with that, but have been sugar-free now for 3 years and my liver has cleared up. The only way I managed to do this was by starting to drink diet soda and eating lots of potato chips instead - I still have my appetite!
My biggest complaint of real weight stigma is directed towards men and the weight stigma they inflict on larger women. I follow some young larger women on Instagram and it makes me so upset when they pose in beautiful clothing and nice makeup and almost all the complements come from other large women. I noticed in my dating experience that it's not hard to get a man to go out with you on a date (or to have sex), but those dates seldom lead to you becoming a boyfriend/girlfriend and even when they do, the man never wants to move in with you or marry you simply because you're a bigger person, even if they rarely dare to tell it to your face. This has totally wrecked my emotional health and my life goals, and at times I get mad at myself, my eating habits and my body, instead of men, who seem to be completely impossible to change. Thank you for listening and my apologies for typing my heart out on you.
So thought provoking. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. And I looked up the definition of fat in several dictionaries, and the definitions relating to bodies were very fatphobic. Ugh. (I'm a fat artist working on making an artist's book titled "Fat", just having the word float on pages of abstract, beautiful imagery.)
This thread has been moderated. While there is no shame in being higher weight or having a substance use disorder, conflating being higher-weight with substance use disorders is not evidence-based, is rooted in stereotypes about higher-weight people, and does a disservice to higher-weight people, to people with substance use disorders, and to higher-weight people with actual substance use disorders.
This was such a great read! It feels like the terms we use to describe ourselves are constantly changing. It can be confusing and this was incredibly helpful. Thanks for your work!
So glad it was helpful., thanks! There's definitely a process of evolution that goes on when a marginalized group is working out what to call themselves, and of course here that's complicated by the weight loss industry trying to hijack that process for profit (without caring who they harm.)
I'm very large and prefer the term obese over the term fat. People call me fat every week and it's usually done as an insult. In fact, people have been calling me fat as long as I can remember and it's almost always meant as a way to mock me. The word fat is seen in such a negative light that my niece's school banned it as a slur among other racial slurs and using it will get the kid suspended. That being said, no-one has ever called me obese as an insult. Everyone has been ultra-supportive and understanding who has used that term to describe me. I don't care that it means "to eat until fat" - what's wrong with having a big appetite anyway? It's not a moral failure to like food - food is not alcohol - and everyone who looks at you will think that you're large because you've eaten too much anyway, so there's no point pretending otherwise (regardless of the truth).
Hi Nancy, I believe that oppressed people can choose whatever word they prefer for whatever reason they prefer it. And as I mentioned in the piece I definitely understand that fat is a reclaiming term and thus complicated, which is also why I use terms like higher weight, larger bodied, etc. in some situations. I also absolutely agree that there is no moral failure in liking food. The reason I personally don't use ob*se is that if I use it, I reinforce and support the pathologization and medicalization of higher weight people (which is exclusively what that term was created to do) which, even if it doesn't end up harming me, leads to the harming and even killing of many other higher weight people by creating weight stigma, weight cycling, and healthcare inequalities.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply Ragen. What I don't understand is, why can't we reclaim the word obese and make it into something that no-longer has any harmful components to it? In my understanding the n-word was also originally created to harm black people and now they use it to refer to each other without stigma. I just feel like the word fat has such negative connotations attached to it that it can't be saved. I remember my father telling my brother to never call a lady two things: fat or ugly. My brother (also a large person) ended up marrying a thin lady, whereas I personally never got the chance to marry anyone at all or to have children, and I feel it's mostly due to my size. I must confess that I'm not very well-versed in so called fat politics, but it does both puzzle and trigger me when people call themselves small, mid, large or infinifats, when those categorizations (in my experience) roughly begin at BMIs of 35, 40, 45 and 50. I get that BMI is a flawed metric, but why can't we use something more objective than clothing sizes when we categorize ourselves? Why not use the tools that we have rather than reinvent the wheel, even if the original inventor was an anti-large person white man? I'm saying this as someone who already had a BMI in the low 30's as a teenager and a BMI between 40 and 45 during most of my adulthood.
I'll start by saying that fatphobia and racism are not comparable, at least not by those who don't hold both identities. That's something that I used to do too, and then kind folks educated me that it both erases the differences in history between racism and fatphobia, as well as erasing the experiences of those who are both fat and Black.
In terms of reclaiming "obese" it is a term that was literally created to pathologize and medicalize fat bodies and it is rooted in racism, and particularly anti-Blackness, and when we use it we reinforce those things. It is not a term that we are reclaiming from being a taunt (like fat,) the concepts of "obesity" and "BMI" are racist pseudoscience that are being actively used by the healthcare system to harm and oppress us, and they do more harm to those who hold multiple marginalized identities - when we legitimize these words we participate in that harm.
I'm so sorry that your life has been impacted by weight stigma, that should not happen. In terms of small, mid, large, and infinifat, I've never heard anyone in fat liberation community tie those to BMI. Typically they are loosely tied to clothing sizes, but mostly to experiences of oppression that increase with size.
Part of the journey of oppressed groups is to choose how to name and describe themselves and their experience within oppressive systems, and while of course no one is obligated to choose to reclaim terms, I think it is important the we support the process of liberation for other fat folks, and divest from the systems (and terms) that were created to oppress - especially those terms that oppress those with less privilege than we have.
Thank you for continuing to explain your thought process. I have probably been a lucky large person, since I've never remember having had care denied due to my size. I have, of course, had many healthcare professionals warn me about my large size and that it'll catch up with me at some point. I've never felt stressed about it, because my health complaints have always been taken seriously and they've never been size related. I was diagnosed with a liver problem 5 years ago and that was the only time I felt bad about my eating habits in relation to my health. Back then the doctor informed me that I have fructose induced fatty liver disease, which is a fancier word for NAFLD. She told me not to worry about losing weight, but to stop eating sugar altogether, because that was apparently the cause of it. I had a really hard time complying with that, but have been sugar-free now for 3 years and my liver has cleared up. The only way I managed to do this was by starting to drink diet soda and eating lots of potato chips instead - I still have my appetite!
My biggest complaint of real weight stigma is directed towards men and the weight stigma they inflict on larger women. I follow some young larger women on Instagram and it makes me so upset when they pose in beautiful clothing and nice makeup and almost all the complements come from other large women. I noticed in my dating experience that it's not hard to get a man to go out with you on a date (or to have sex), but those dates seldom lead to you becoming a boyfriend/girlfriend and even when they do, the man never wants to move in with you or marry you simply because you're a bigger person, even if they rarely dare to tell it to your face. This has totally wrecked my emotional health and my life goals, and at times I get mad at myself, my eating habits and my body, instead of men, who seem to be completely impossible to change. Thank you for listening and my apologies for typing my heart out on you.
So thought provoking. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. And I looked up the definition of fat in several dictionaries, and the definitions relating to bodies were very fatphobic. Ugh. (I'm a fat artist working on making an artist's book titled "Fat", just having the word float on pages of abstract, beautiful imagery.)
That book (and that image!) sound amazing, thank you for what you are doing!
Ragen, thank you for all the lifesaving work you are doing! You inspire and educate me all the time!