Thank you for criticizing this. I read that column to see how the ethicist responded--I was disappointed. It was shortly followed by a column titled "My Best Friends Are Taking Ozempic. Can I Share My Disapproval?" The friends were described as "not obese," and that struck me as a kind of virtue signaling that I haven't quite unpacked. The ethicist was noticeably hostile to the writer of this letter, almost in reverse proportion to how solicitous they were to the writer concerned about their ob*se friend. I can't help but see it as a kind of side-taking: if you're the fat object of criticism, the Ethicist is on the side of the presumably thin friend; if you're the normal-with-an-extra-twenty-pounds-taking-drugs-to-lose-the-weight, then the Ethicist is with you, and against your meddling friend. In both cases, the Ethicist is firmly on the side of weight loss. I would be interested in your thoughts on a compare/contrast of these two letters.
I came here specifically to mention this. I regularly read The Ethicist, and it was really jarring to see this response and then five days later, see that the next letter was about Ozempic and his response began with "It’s not the job of friends to play doctor." and ended with "In any case, the evidence is clear: Moralizing weight issues doesn’t help solve them."
At that point, it felt like The Ethicist was trolling *us*--because his response to letter #2 could just as easily be a response to his own advice for the first letter!
I came here to mention this too! I usually enjoy advice columns--despite a degree in philosophy and occasionally mentioning various philosophers and their schools of thought, at the end of the day, he's an advice columnist who often offers advice outside of his expert area.
I, too, read this and the column about Ozempic and was angered as well. I thought I was going to be even more upset by the comments from readers, but I was surprisingly pleased that the ones I read (maybe the top 25?) we're either "leave your friend alone, ffs!" or a "her health is none of your business so even if she is fat and unhealthy, it's her business." The second one isn't great, but it's a lot better than some of the vile ones I was expecting. I'm sure they exist, but I'm glad I stopped before I saw them.
And I'm going to point out, as I did in another comment, this guy is an "ethicist" with a philosophy degree/background. His answers read to me like any other advice column. He only mentioned the philosophical and ethical theories he bases his answers on I'm maybe one out of five or ten letters. Otherwise, he's offering advice the same way any other advice column does. It's not special because the NYT gave him and/or the title of "ethicist". I'm just trying to underscore the fact that he's not an expert in anything but philosophy--and certainly not health, weight stigma or anything else--and doesn't even use that as a basis for a lot of his answers.
Not gonna lie, this was a lot to read, not in the least because I was recently targeted with concern trolling by a friend. We were coworkers for 8 years and have stayed friendly in the 4 years since I left the job. She has rarely mentioned my weight, and last time she talked, I made it clear I did not agree with her perspective. Last weekend, we met up for lunch, and I mentioned my osteoarthritis (specifically to say that I thought I had another condition causing some of my non-joint pain). She then went on to say that she knew I didn't want to hear about weight loss, but had I thought about maintaining my weight. She did not apologize even when I got angry because she felt like I should understand it was because she cared about me. And I just don't want to hang out with her anymore, mostly because she doesn't respect my boundaries, but also because we usually get lunch together, and I don't want to eat in front of someone I know is judging my food intake. I didn't read the actual letter Ragen referenced, but it reminded me so much of my own experience that even if it was a troll write-in, it still reflects the reality fat people face.
The letter is such an obvious troll. It makes me want to email in a variation "my friend has cancer and I think she's not doing enough to combat it, but she's told me not to talk about it with her" to see if the advice is different. Somehow I imagine it would be...
I read his column every week and I don't always agree with him, but I've never been so horrified with a response. Even though I don't expect better from the NYT by now, I'm still really disappointed that he's bought into fatphobic diet culture and is broadcasting 'live and let live' for those striving to lose weight, and 'blame, shame and pity' for fat folks who aren't.
I, too, was disgusted by his inconsistency, ignorance, and evident bias. As a longtime NYT subscriber (despite dissatisfaction with its both-sides political coverage), I’ve learned not to read the health coverage and ESPECIALLY not the smug, arrogant, fat-shaming, sanctimonious, clueless, and unkind comments. Sheesh. What a bunch of boorish assholes. Thanks, Ragen...and I look forward to your take on Jen Gunter’s epic fail when you have time.
Thank you so much for tackling this awful, dehumanizing column. Your work is so cathartic to read! My jaw was on the floor scrolling through The Ethicist’s response.
Anybody want to write a sarcastic letter to 'The Ethicist' about how they're a reader of a help column that gave dubious and incorrect advice to readers on topics they're not an expert on? Feels needed 😂
Thank you for criticizing this. I read that column to see how the ethicist responded--I was disappointed. It was shortly followed by a column titled "My Best Friends Are Taking Ozempic. Can I Share My Disapproval?" The friends were described as "not obese," and that struck me as a kind of virtue signaling that I haven't quite unpacked. The ethicist was noticeably hostile to the writer of this letter, almost in reverse proportion to how solicitous they were to the writer concerned about their ob*se friend. I can't help but see it as a kind of side-taking: if you're the fat object of criticism, the Ethicist is on the side of the presumably thin friend; if you're the normal-with-an-extra-twenty-pounds-taking-drugs-to-lose-the-weight, then the Ethicist is with you, and against your meddling friend. In both cases, the Ethicist is firmly on the side of weight loss. I would be interested in your thoughts on a compare/contrast of these two letters.
I came here specifically to mention this. I regularly read The Ethicist, and it was really jarring to see this response and then five days later, see that the next letter was about Ozempic and his response began with "It’s not the job of friends to play doctor." and ended with "In any case, the evidence is clear: Moralizing weight issues doesn’t help solve them."
At that point, it felt like The Ethicist was trolling *us*--because his response to letter #2 could just as easily be a response to his own advice for the first letter!
I came here to mention this too! I usually enjoy advice columns--despite a degree in philosophy and occasionally mentioning various philosophers and their schools of thought, at the end of the day, he's an advice columnist who often offers advice outside of his expert area.
I, too, read this and the column about Ozempic and was angered as well. I thought I was going to be even more upset by the comments from readers, but I was surprisingly pleased that the ones I read (maybe the top 25?) we're either "leave your friend alone, ffs!" or a "her health is none of your business so even if she is fat and unhealthy, it's her business." The second one isn't great, but it's a lot better than some of the vile ones I was expecting. I'm sure they exist, but I'm glad I stopped before I saw them.
And I'm going to point out, as I did in another comment, this guy is an "ethicist" with a philosophy degree/background. His answers read to me like any other advice column. He only mentioned the philosophical and ethical theories he bases his answers on I'm maybe one out of five or ten letters. Otherwise, he's offering advice the same way any other advice column does. It's not special because the NYT gave him and/or the title of "ethicist". I'm just trying to underscore the fact that he's not an expert in anything but philosophy--and certainly not health, weight stigma or anything else--and doesn't even use that as a basis for a lot of his answers.
Not gonna lie, this was a lot to read, not in the least because I was recently targeted with concern trolling by a friend. We were coworkers for 8 years and have stayed friendly in the 4 years since I left the job. She has rarely mentioned my weight, and last time she talked, I made it clear I did not agree with her perspective. Last weekend, we met up for lunch, and I mentioned my osteoarthritis (specifically to say that I thought I had another condition causing some of my non-joint pain). She then went on to say that she knew I didn't want to hear about weight loss, but had I thought about maintaining my weight. She did not apologize even when I got angry because she felt like I should understand it was because she cared about me. And I just don't want to hang out with her anymore, mostly because she doesn't respect my boundaries, but also because we usually get lunch together, and I don't want to eat in front of someone I know is judging my food intake. I didn't read the actual letter Ragen referenced, but it reminded me so much of my own experience that even if it was a troll write-in, it still reflects the reality fat people face.
The letter is such an obvious troll. It makes me want to email in a variation "my friend has cancer and I think she's not doing enough to combat it, but she's told me not to talk about it with her" to see if the advice is different. Somehow I imagine it would be...
I wrote an email to the ethicist (formerly one of my favorite columns) right after reading that letter last week. So disappointing.
I read his column every week and I don't always agree with him, but I've never been so horrified with a response. Even though I don't expect better from the NYT by now, I'm still really disappointed that he's bought into fatphobic diet culture and is broadcasting 'live and let live' for those striving to lose weight, and 'blame, shame and pity' for fat folks who aren't.
I, too, was disgusted by his inconsistency, ignorance, and evident bias. As a longtime NYT subscriber (despite dissatisfaction with its both-sides political coverage), I’ve learned not to read the health coverage and ESPECIALLY not the smug, arrogant, fat-shaming, sanctimonious, clueless, and unkind comments. Sheesh. What a bunch of boorish assholes. Thanks, Ragen...and I look forward to your take on Jen Gunter’s epic fail when you have time.
Barf. I was sooooooo close to emailing you this article. I am going to email them, too. Great idea, Cara.
Thank you so much for tackling this awful, dehumanizing column. Your work is so cathartic to read! My jaw was on the floor scrolling through The Ethicist’s response.
Anybody want to write a sarcastic letter to 'The Ethicist' about how they're a reader of a help column that gave dubious and incorrect advice to readers on topics they're not an expert on? Feels needed 😂