Months of my eating disorder therapy was realizing that even when I wasn’t not-eating, my body still needed more than I was giving it, and I’d managed to turn off my physical hunger cues to the point mental hunger was all I had left so it was *loud*. Once I was eating more, it slowly stopped. The war back and forth about what/how I “should” be eating took longer.
As someone in constant 7-8+ pain, I sometimes wish there were a medicine that could turn off my pain signals, but I also understand that could easily lead to my death. We’re so conditioned fat people not eating is fine that we ignore all the subtle ways it destroys our bodies.
This thread has been moderated. While people have an absolute right to bodily autonomy, this is a weight-neutral space and thus not an appropriate place for the embracing/promotion of a weight-centric paradigm.
It is terrifying and I'm certain there will be physical harm on a level we can't even imagine, Jen. If you think about it, these GLP-1 drugs might be one of the first FDA approved examples of changing someone's brain so they conform to societies standards of beauty. Talk about a nightmare!
Such an important topic, and looking the comments, the issue of “food noise” hits. I am a therapist and eating disorders specialist. I also have recovered from a decades-long journey with disordered eating. I raise an eyebrow to the idea of food noise. Don’t get me wrong—I understand intrusive thoughts and food obsession. It’s just that in my experience—personally and professionally—that these intrusive thoughts quiet with adequate nourishment, having a neutral and inclusive stance on food, and eating what satisfies. Then, it takes time to heal once engaging in this way. Time, mindfulness, and compassion. It’s not easy, it’s swimming against the tide. I hope that it gets better for those struggling.
I also have a perspective because I take Ozempic to manage diabetes. My individual experience—Even at a low dose the digestive dysregulation seems to be driving less hunger and interest in food.
To me, “food noise” isn’t just hunger. It’s the intrusive thoughts about food that cannot and will not go away. It’s when I am playing with my kids, and rather than focusing on them, I am focusing on food. Or when I can’t just sit and enjoy a TV show because I have such a strong desire to go get some chips.
The noise is driven by biological means. I mean, where would we be as a species if we didn’t have that drive?
For me, the noise isn’t about my size. That’s a different type of noise I am working hard on learning to love and accept. But the food noise is an incessant voice that I wish I could just turn off sometimes.
I am cautious about the long term effects of these drugs, but I certainly see the appeal to having the noise shut off. Not the desire to eat, but the obsession with food and nothing but food.
In the midst of this discussion, it is important to not ostracize people who seek out these medications. I hope that everyone in a larger body can find peace and acceptance, but we are all at different stages along the way.
I completely understand the longing to have peace. I've had symptoms of binge eating disorder since I was a toddler (not joking) and my 'food noise' is about seeking relief in times of emotional discomfor and anxiety. Once I realized that I wasn't just a really bad dieter, and acknowledged that I learned to rely on food to trigger feelings of safety and soothing, I found a lot more peace with food and compassion for myself.
I feel like food noise is probably really food obsession and what people are experiencing is the combination of true hunger and restriction. So it’s like of course you’ll be thinking about food so much!! Your body is trying to get its needs met and you’re probably telling yourself constantly what you can’t be eating. People just don’t want to be believe that disordered eating and restriction are bad for fat people!
Wow, Ragen, this is such a powerful post. To me this gets right to the heart of the matter: that we are so exposed to the mythology that we must be a certain size and we must conform to standards applied by others, thate we will engage in behaviors that harm us. Intentional weight loss makes us metabolically sick, creates eating disorders and keeps us in a fight with our bodies and our food. We hate ourselves because we can't seem to be what everyone else says we must be--a smaller person--genetic predisposition or metabolism be dammed.
All through this, the weight loss industry and big pharma (I'd throw food manufacturers into this mix) savage us with cures that depend on our destroyed self-esteem to get our attention. The whole economic model is dependent on keeping us out of touch with how our brains and bodies naturally work and ensuring we become pathologically desperate to find peace with food and our weight through diets and drugs.
Imagine a whole economic model dependent on making us feel like shit all the time, so they can push drugs and metabolically damaging weight-loss strategies and "diet" foods on us for profit. That is entirely what this is. Just want to smack someone across the mouth.
I had not heard the term food noise before. I realize the way it is being used in this discussion. However, if I could claim the term for myself, I would use it on people who are interrupting your meal to tell you what you should and shouldn't be eating. I would say to them, excuse me, you're making a lot of food noise right now, could you please stop.
It’s infuriating that pharma companies have recruited (weaponised?) ‘food noise’ to support the promotion of these drugs. In the famous Minnesota Starvation experiment, intrusive food thoughts was one of the long lasting affects on the participants after spending 24 weeks on 1500 calories a day (aka any modern diet!). Food noise comes from deprivation. Practising IE has helped me reduce food noise.
So grateful for this article and analysis. "Food noise" sounds exactly like "mental hunger," which is a well-regarded symptom of restriction in the eating disorder space. Of course it seems like fatphobia is at play here that this is seen as a sign of possible anorexia or other disorder in some patients and a sign of needing a WL drug in others. Ugh.
I have had anorexia and other eating-related issues for much of my life. I think about food all the time. I hate it. I know way better; I'm a therapist who works with a number of people who have eating disorders, and I am strongly in support of anti-diet, HAES, body neutrality, body liberation, etc. There was a period of time some years ago when I was eating some more than currently and had refrained from exercise for a few years, and the "food noise" was not quite as bad. When I was hospitalized many years ago and was made to eat a very large amount in order to become adequately nourished and physically okay, the "food noise" somewhat died down.
This is clear indication to me that when more adequately nourished, or something closer to it anyway, some of the noise lessens. I've thought about food a lot all my life, for a number of reasons (to include messaging around me that suggested that some degree of controlled eating was ideal and that "fat" was bad, plus to some extent emotional reasons); however, I would love to reach a point at which I feel more peaceful with food and however my body ends up. I keep fighting with myself, between what I keep doing and what I know so well intellectually and what I stand for. I hate all of this talk about the Wegovies and the Ozempics and all the rest. I hope that in a few years maybe, the trend dies down, but I imagine it's not going anywhere anytime soon. I hope that ASDAH's new framework is spread far and wide and that the medical professional takes it seriously (doubtful).
This post made me think a lot so thank you. When I think back to my 20s (and when I read through my old journals from those years) I think of food noise. I was literally tortured by never ending thoughts about food. I thought about food day and night, almost fantasized about it. I think it was driven by restriction (even when I was eating enough calories, there were always things that were “bad” and off limits. And certainly I never had any noise about broccoli). I still get these thoughts today… it’s much less noisy because I either give my body what it’s thinking about or, in other situations, I talk to myself lovingly and ask my body what’s going on (I like to do this in the bath which has always been a very calming place for me). Sometimes it’s anxiety or fear that I haven’t yet named, and when I do that, the other thoughts go away. Sometimes I really just want something so I go get it. For me, what I call noise is very different than hunger- which I experience as “I must eat right now.” That thought is less about any particular food and more about just getting energy and glucose into my body. It’s also more often accompanied by other physical feelings, like my stomach rumbling or having low blood sugar, and it directly correlates to waiting too long to eat. It’s not mentally unpleasant, but can certainly feel physically unpleasant, whereas my “noise” always felt like mental torture.
Months of my eating disorder therapy was realizing that even when I wasn’t not-eating, my body still needed more than I was giving it, and I’d managed to turn off my physical hunger cues to the point mental hunger was all I had left so it was *loud*. Once I was eating more, it slowly stopped. The war back and forth about what/how I “should” be eating took longer.
As someone in constant 7-8+ pain, I sometimes wish there were a medicine that could turn off my pain signals, but I also understand that could easily lead to my death. We’re so conditioned fat people not eating is fine that we ignore all the subtle ways it destroys our bodies.
This thread has been moderated. While people have an absolute right to bodily autonomy, this is a weight-neutral space and thus not an appropriate place for the embracing/promotion of a weight-centric paradigm.
WOW. I hadn’t heard of this before, and I’m kinda glad I’ve been out of the loop.
This really reeks of eugenics IMO.
I guess giving fat people drugs to stop us from breathing is illegal, so stopping us from eating is the next best thing.
I am terrified of what we’re going to learn from 20 years of drug-altered brain chemistry.
It is terrifying and I'm certain there will be physical harm on a level we can't even imagine, Jen. If you think about it, these GLP-1 drugs might be one of the first FDA approved examples of changing someone's brain so they conform to societies standards of beauty. Talk about a nightmare!
Absolutely.
This dystopian hellscape is reaching new lows by the minute.
Such an important topic, and looking the comments, the issue of “food noise” hits. I am a therapist and eating disorders specialist. I also have recovered from a decades-long journey with disordered eating. I raise an eyebrow to the idea of food noise. Don’t get me wrong—I understand intrusive thoughts and food obsession. It’s just that in my experience—personally and professionally—that these intrusive thoughts quiet with adequate nourishment, having a neutral and inclusive stance on food, and eating what satisfies. Then, it takes time to heal once engaging in this way. Time, mindfulness, and compassion. It’s not easy, it’s swimming against the tide. I hope that it gets better for those struggling.
I also have a perspective because I take Ozempic to manage diabetes. My individual experience—Even at a low dose the digestive dysregulation seems to be driving less hunger and interest in food.
To me, “food noise” isn’t just hunger. It’s the intrusive thoughts about food that cannot and will not go away. It’s when I am playing with my kids, and rather than focusing on them, I am focusing on food. Or when I can’t just sit and enjoy a TV show because I have such a strong desire to go get some chips.
The noise is driven by biological means. I mean, where would we be as a species if we didn’t have that drive?
For me, the noise isn’t about my size. That’s a different type of noise I am working hard on learning to love and accept. But the food noise is an incessant voice that I wish I could just turn off sometimes.
I am cautious about the long term effects of these drugs, but I certainly see the appeal to having the noise shut off. Not the desire to eat, but the obsession with food and nothing but food.
In the midst of this discussion, it is important to not ostracize people who seek out these medications. I hope that everyone in a larger body can find peace and acceptance, but we are all at different stages along the way.
I completely understand the longing to have peace. I've had symptoms of binge eating disorder since I was a toddler (not joking) and my 'food noise' is about seeking relief in times of emotional discomfor and anxiety. Once I realized that I wasn't just a really bad dieter, and acknowledged that I learned to rely on food to trigger feelings of safety and soothing, I found a lot more peace with food and compassion for myself.
Great points! Thank you for your response!
I feel like food noise is probably really food obsession and what people are experiencing is the combination of true hunger and restriction. So it’s like of course you’ll be thinking about food so much!! Your body is trying to get its needs met and you’re probably telling yourself constantly what you can’t be eating. People just don’t want to be believe that disordered eating and restriction are bad for fat people!
Wow, Ragen, this is such a powerful post. To me this gets right to the heart of the matter: that we are so exposed to the mythology that we must be a certain size and we must conform to standards applied by others, thate we will engage in behaviors that harm us. Intentional weight loss makes us metabolically sick, creates eating disorders and keeps us in a fight with our bodies and our food. We hate ourselves because we can't seem to be what everyone else says we must be--a smaller person--genetic predisposition or metabolism be dammed.
All through this, the weight loss industry and big pharma (I'd throw food manufacturers into this mix) savage us with cures that depend on our destroyed self-esteem to get our attention. The whole economic model is dependent on keeping us out of touch with how our brains and bodies naturally work and ensuring we become pathologically desperate to find peace with food and our weight through diets and drugs.
Imagine a whole economic model dependent on making us feel like shit all the time, so they can push drugs and metabolically damaging weight-loss strategies and "diet" foods on us for profit. That is entirely what this is. Just want to smack someone across the mouth.
I had not heard the term food noise before. I realize the way it is being used in this discussion. However, if I could claim the term for myself, I would use it on people who are interrupting your meal to tell you what you should and shouldn't be eating. I would say to them, excuse me, you're making a lot of food noise right now, could you please stop.
Wow. Wow. That the agonists hang out in the brain, for possibly a long long time, and there is no research on what effects that might have? Woah.
It’s infuriating that pharma companies have recruited (weaponised?) ‘food noise’ to support the promotion of these drugs. In the famous Minnesota Starvation experiment, intrusive food thoughts was one of the long lasting affects on the participants after spending 24 weeks on 1500 calories a day (aka any modern diet!). Food noise comes from deprivation. Practising IE has helped me reduce food noise.
So grateful for this article and analysis. "Food noise" sounds exactly like "mental hunger," which is a well-regarded symptom of restriction in the eating disorder space. Of course it seems like fatphobia is at play here that this is seen as a sign of possible anorexia or other disorder in some patients and a sign of needing a WL drug in others. Ugh.
Heard this a while back and one person had healed her relationship with food and the "noise" came back AFTER going on semaglutide. It undid all her hard emotional work. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/18/podcasts/the-daily/ozempic-weight-loss.html
That's heartbreaking!
I have had anorexia and other eating-related issues for much of my life. I think about food all the time. I hate it. I know way better; I'm a therapist who works with a number of people who have eating disorders, and I am strongly in support of anti-diet, HAES, body neutrality, body liberation, etc. There was a period of time some years ago when I was eating some more than currently and had refrained from exercise for a few years, and the "food noise" was not quite as bad. When I was hospitalized many years ago and was made to eat a very large amount in order to become adequately nourished and physically okay, the "food noise" somewhat died down.
This is clear indication to me that when more adequately nourished, or something closer to it anyway, some of the noise lessens. I've thought about food a lot all my life, for a number of reasons (to include messaging around me that suggested that some degree of controlled eating was ideal and that "fat" was bad, plus to some extent emotional reasons); however, I would love to reach a point at which I feel more peaceful with food and however my body ends up. I keep fighting with myself, between what I keep doing and what I know so well intellectually and what I stand for. I hate all of this talk about the Wegovies and the Ozempics and all the rest. I hope that in a few years maybe, the trend dies down, but I imagine it's not going anywhere anytime soon. I hope that ASDAH's new framework is spread far and wide and that the medical professional takes it seriously (doubtful).
I should qualify: I'm a thin person, so I can't speak for people in larger bodies and their experience of all of this mess.
This post made me think a lot so thank you. When I think back to my 20s (and when I read through my old journals from those years) I think of food noise. I was literally tortured by never ending thoughts about food. I thought about food day and night, almost fantasized about it. I think it was driven by restriction (even when I was eating enough calories, there were always things that were “bad” and off limits. And certainly I never had any noise about broccoli). I still get these thoughts today… it’s much less noisy because I either give my body what it’s thinking about or, in other situations, I talk to myself lovingly and ask my body what’s going on (I like to do this in the bath which has always been a very calming place for me). Sometimes it’s anxiety or fear that I haven’t yet named, and when I do that, the other thoughts go away. Sometimes I really just want something so I go get it. For me, what I call noise is very different than hunger- which I experience as “I must eat right now.” That thought is less about any particular food and more about just getting energy and glucose into my body. It’s also more often accompanied by other physical feelings, like my stomach rumbling or having low blood sugar, and it directly correlates to waiting too long to eat. It’s not mentally unpleasant, but can certainly feel physically unpleasant, whereas my “noise” always felt like mental torture.
Thanks again for this discussion.